Lizzie Peelman Letters - revisited

Note: I started this in 2004. Not being able to leave well enough alone, I tried to update the template..... and now it won't work..... so, here I am,  trying to get it all working again.

It's funny; I keep reading bits and pieces and I get to know her, maybe just a little. It's now 120 years later, so well done her! -  for putting pen to paper....

I found a photo labelled "Linton House".

Linton
april 17, 1895

Dear Ben,
we have arrived safe here last night. I never came up with such little trouble. I felt fine and so I do today. The fowls came up with us. I gave them water in Ballarat. Everyone that sees them say what fine ones. The Station Master is quite in love with them. A good advertisement for me. I had a gander given to me this morning. Not so bad. The old fellow was quite disappointed you did not come. He is sinking a new shaft in that little paddock. Tell me if I left Daisy's XXXX at home for I have not got it with me. Tell Nellie I will write to her on Sunday. I see I have brought mother's XXXX with me. I will write to Mrs Howard next week. This is all the news I have at present. They all wish to be remembered to you, no more at present from your ever affectionate wife and children.
E. Peelman.
Elsie is mewing like her kitten.

Linton
April 21 1895

Dear Ben
I expect you got my letter before this. I hope this will find you well as it leaves us at present. How are you getting on with housekeeping? Let me know how many fowls you got laying. My fowls are feasting on the green grass and boiled apples and pears. I got a bag of pollard only 7d per bushel and wheat I got more than you get at the crushing mill so it will not cost me any more to feed them. Friday was Daisy’s birthday. Mother gave her a cow ans Mary is to have one on her birthday. That is a good birthday present. I was up to Danby’s with Jane and Criss. I am going to a flower show next month. Criss is secretary of the club. Dear Ben I want you to send me the perambulator with the machine for it will do Mary to take Elsie up the street for I am starting to wean her. When you send my things you will have to send the kitchen table for the travelers cut up that one at the Danby’s and burned it to boil their billies. I have been fine all this week and so are the youngsters. When Elsie sees the train it is yours and mews. Will is still working he says he would stay with me and drive down on Dobbin to work. Dobbin is walking around for his health. I think dear Ben this is all the news at present. I remain your ever affectionate wife
Lizzie Peelman
Remember me to Mr Adams
I have written to Mrs Howard Footscray

Linton
May 9th 1895

Dear Ben,
I hope these few lines will find you well as it leaves us all at present. The house will soon be ready for us. At the Lankys (Danby’s?) we had to get more lining here Criss and James has been up all this week doing it up he is doing the roof XXXX to it will be comfortable. I think it will be as well for so sent(d?) the things by rail. Ching will cart them up for me. I have a good lot to cart from here now. Mother was getting in a lot of things for herself ½ ton of flour, pollard, bran so she ordered bag of wheaten meal, bag wheat and Heartone and I can pay her after. It was a good thing she did for all the things has rose this week she saved a pound in what she got. I had some of the big boys of Linton to see my fowls yesterday Mr Barry the policeman and Mr Walsh the Stationmaster. They have some prize fowls so I am going up next week to see theirs. Mr. Barry the Policeman is giving me a good dog. I will have to keep him chained up. He is a savage one. The Old Man is in great hopes of this claim he is in now there is water but not so much. He will soon know how it will turn out. Have you seen Mrs. Costello since she came back? I see another accident in the sewers. Tell Nellie I never got the shirt pattern if she sent it but she may not of sent it yet. I will write to her when I get settled in Dantry’s. I think this is all the news I have at present. They all wish to be remembered to you.
I remain your ever affectionate wife and children
Lizzie Peelman
Linton
May 31st 1895
Dear Ben
I received your letter money and parcel this afternoon. I ought to of got it before only Criss was not home he was away at Mount Bute so he brought it up and took Jane home. He is very good at doing anything for me he is going to make a gate in front next week he has put in 100 cauliflower plants at his own place till this garden gets done up to keep the fowls. Will has not much time after he knocks off work he is going to build a new fowlhouse and pull down that old stable I got the fowls in that narrow shed we have to lock them for the foxes are about. I have three big dogs and two pups you will think I have enough to feed. Will killed a calf for them the night before last. Dear Ben you say you hope I am comfortable I wish you was as warm and comfortable there is only one thing we want and that is you with us. It is real nice to be in the bush again. My fowls are starting to lay. The ????? are just started. I have paid for my tin Heartsone and one bag of Pollard so I only owe for one bag of wheat and a bag of wheaten meal so the 5 shillings will go toward it. We have plenty to eat. The old fellow gave me a side of bacon and mother gave me a ham. I will send you a bit of bacon on Monday. Mary misses you more than the others. They are all keeping fine. Let me know if you have any fowls laying yet. Let me know if Bill Adams is still working at the sewers yet. Is Barthols shop not paying that they want ours. I wish they would buy it and let you free and have an easy mind for you have all the worry but there is one thing I am very thankful I am out of Melbourne this winter. It would be double worry how to keep fires(ng) going. I have never felt cold since I came. You had a right to keep one blanket for we are real comfortable and warm. Mr Ching lent me a kerosene (?) lamp stove Aurora like you see in Burke Street to warm the ??????? while I was at Mothers but I do not need it here but I will keep it for the winter to please him. I only wish you was with us we would need no more Dear Ben I think this is all the news at present. I remain your ever affectionate wife and children
Lizzie Peelman
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Tell Nell I will write to her on Sunday I have no envelopes they are dear ½ d each or 3 for a penny
Linton
June 12th 1895
Dear Ben,
I received your letter this afternoon. I was glad to hear you were well but I am both sorry and miserable to read your letter to see you are so lonely. I thought I would be the loneliest. I would be just the same as you only for the children but they do not fill your place when they are asleep. I am alone here I did not tell you that Will sleeps here once a week. He would stop only I would not have him these dark mornings going to work so far. He is my brother it is true but his company is not to me like yours. There is none can fill your place with me man or woman. I am sorry I left you by yourself. I will fight as hard as you for us to be one. You know I had no companion but you. I tell you all my aches and pains what I do not even my mother for I know I have your sympathy. I know we are one – it was for you I struggled to get here to see if you could not have an easier mind than you have had what with me sick and you worrying to keep a good home for us. We shall not with God’s help be parted long for I could not stand it any more than you. Poor Mary is broken hearted tonight for you been lonely – she is going to post this in the morning, I will be miserable till I get another letter from you. Write to me on Sunday. The old fellow hurt his foot he let a big log fall on it he is not able to work this week. Criss brought the letter to me. Will slept here last night he brought Albert’s pick up with a new handle and sharpened the one you sent. If he is by himself I will talk to him on Sunday – the difference in you two you’re struggling to work to make your home comfortable and him letting his go to ruin..
Dear Ben cheer up and hope for my health to return and I will spend it on trying to make you happy. Do not think I ever forget you for one hour of my life. I think dear Ben this is all the news here in the bush. It would be heaven if you were here with us. Goodbye till you write again. I remain your ever affectionate wife and children Lizzie Peelman
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Linton
June 19th (1895)

My Dear Ben,
           I received your kind and welcome letter on Monday also the money you do not know the relief your letter was to me I am afraid you will worry yourself sick. I have not seen Will by himself since I wrote Jane and Criss has been up here since Saturday. Criss has been making a gate in front and doing the fruit trees up a bit. The fox has been trying to break in to the fowls. He shot him today.
…… …. ……has got ten shillings to get tomorrow from the council he is at home this evening and we trapped 4 rabbits this week. I expect Will up tomorrow  night James is to dig around the fruit trees a bit -  I would as soon the fowls to scratch around them. So I am never lonely and timid. I am not – my sickness cured me of that and the only loneliness I have is for you Ben. I am not sorry I came here for myself for I really like living here. It is better for me here and I know you will like here dear Ben I will write soon as I see Will again only if I do not write tonight you would not get it on Friday and you would be disappointed, dear Ben. I am very glad you got your hand read but don’t worry over the enemies (?) everybody has enemies. As for Annie she has done her best to hurt us- the best way to treat her is not to answer her letter – that insults worse than anything. She will try to pump Mrs Cass, I had a letter from Nell tonight – she never mentioned Annie. Does she know you got a letter from her dear Ben? I wish you could see how comfortable these two bedrooms are. I sleep in the front room with Elsie. I got that single bedstead from mother. Three children in the big bed we are cosy and warm. I will tell you I do not even have the lamp burning after I go to bed. That little room we have a pantry and storeroom. The kitchen we live in. Criss has made a splendid job of the back door. Put up a post for my clothesline. Done more than Will or the old fellow would do in six months. It is nearly dark before Will can get up – the days are so short – next Saturday is the shortest day. That is a good job George is to be a football player – you ought to go and see him. Nell says she is going to tell me how many falls he gets. Will was footballing last Saturday.
Nell tells me that Mrs Hearsley(?) is home. I am very glad of that. It will not be quite so dull. You will have some life about you only do not make so free for I might surprise the two of you. The old fellows foot is quite black now – he is finishing a pair of boots for Daisy this week. He thinks a terrible lot of you. As soon as he can bottom that long talked shaft and gets good bottom he is going to send for you first and Albert. There is no boy like Albert with him and with Criss – he is always at his heels – they say he is so quick to pick up what is wanted without being told. You would laugh to see him helping Criss pruning the trees. I would like you to be here last Saturday; the English Minister called in here so he was wanting the children to Sunday School so before he went away he knelt down to have a prayer. So we have two young pups so while he was down on his knees the pup takes his hat and were playing with it – you would think they would pull it in two so Albert jumps up takes the hat off them, kneels down again. The Minister had a overcoat on – the pups take him by the tail of it and begin pulling and growling over it but Albert could not stand this any longer without laughing – he picks up the pups and out the back door. I thought he would never stop laughing. One his pup and the other Elsie’s – a little fellow called Nip. Elsie is beginning to talk.
I think dear Ben this is all the news I have to send you this time. Try and content yourself for a little time. I do wish the old fellow got good gold. It would be good for all of us but I am in great hopes of being better up here than anywhere else – goodnight dear Ben
I remain your ever affectionate wife
                                                            Lizzie Peelman
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This is a newspaper of a letter for you.

Linton

Wednesday July 3^rd, 1895.

Dear Ben,

Received your letter yesterday. I cannot tell you how grieved I am to think you are worrying yourself sick. I do wish I never left you by yourself. I knew you was dreading the winter to be out of work and I thought it would be easier for you if I was up here but now I am between two fires. I am anxious to be with you and I cannot leave the things and the children. It would be no good for me to go for a week; it would only make you miserable and me discontented. Will is here this week; I can talk my mind more to him than the rest so he thinks if I send Mary down to you it might be better for you not to be thinking for you will have her to talk to and she is good company and he says he will do all he can in her place. He is going into Ballarat on Saturday so he will put her in the train. He is going in the morning. If this next two months were over it would not be so bad if you cannot content yourself. I will have to go to you or you to me. I do wish you could come here; it would better here for we can live on less here. This is the worst time of the year. I do not know why but I thought I would see you up last week. Mary will tell you when she sees you. (better do not answer this unless you are coming). I do hope these few lines will find you better. Do not answer this unless you are coming till Mary gets to you.

Dear Ben, I do not know what else to do for the best for you but I am very glad you let me know that you were miserable for it will ease your mind a little. There will be shearing at Mount Brite in September of course. It will only be 6 weeks work but if you were here it would be better than nothing. I am in hopes of something better to turn up but they are so slow here at anything.

Daisy has to post this and it is teaming rain but I want you to get it Thursday. I think Dear Ben this is all for the present,

I remain your ever affectionate wife

E. Peelman

I do hope Mary will cheer you up for a time. It will be by the Marsh train Mary will come.

Linton
July 11th, 1895

Dear Ben
I received your letter yesterday and glad to hear the ringworm is getting better. I was very near sending Mary without writing. I am glad I did not now as you think you are as well without her for I would miss her. You seem to grieve over me in not staying with mother as you wanted me. I am not; I would rather be by myself. I do not like to be among a lot if I had my choice to live down home or go back to Melbourne for I will never go back without a free will for I do like living here. You say we are not gaining anything; we are not losing: the children have all good strong boots for the winter, no butter, no milk and no ??? to speak of and I have not spent one penny in butchers meat yet we have had eggs, rabbits and bacon. I have to get tea and sugar but the tea is horrible. I will knock off tea - it was only wasting the eggs changing them for tea. We have got the garden ready for vegetables but I could not keep the fowls out - only chasing them with the two dogs but I did not gain anything with that for I stopped them all laying. I have only one laying so won't hunt them out with the dog again. I miss the ready shilling they brought in. They are not keeping themselves now; I expect they will soon start again.
Ben it is no good for you to be expecting me to be coming down to Melbourne; one reason it is so cold now the middle of winter you know traveling do not suit me and I could not go without the two little ones. I could not be lugging them after me alone then I would have to have Jane here to milk the cow and she is getting too stout for more than her own work - poor devil will have enough when the other youngster comes, and it will not make matters any better and the chance of me getting cold. I am doing my best and trying to get my health back and I can do no more; I think Dear Ben this is all the news I have at present. Last Saturday night Mary and I stayed up till 1 o'clock. I got it in my head you were coming. The worst disappointment was a trap stopped in front to fix their loading; we thought it was you - that you got a lift from Linton, so no more at present. I remain your ever affectionate wife, Lizzie Peelman
I sent you a pattern of wool to send me to foot my stocking about three weeks ago but you never said anything about it.

Linton 

July 30 1895

Dear Ben,

I received your letter yesterday. I can see you are not one bit more contented. I do wish you would try the doctor; changing your medicine won’t do you any good. That won’t give you an easy mind. I will throw all the medicine out when I come home. I know you will be better without it. You seemed better the day or two we were down with you. I know you would be alright when you get rest. What devil possessed me when I left you by yourself? It will never happen again. I have not told them yet – I am putting the evil hour off. For one thing I would be blocked up with sewing (???) for Criss is going to Ballarat on Saturday for a supply of goods. Jane says she will have plenty of sewing for me for she is sending for calico and flannel, lots of other things for the coming event so she will sing out loudest about me going back. I have two jackets to make next week for her and I have as much heart as a man with a rope around his neck. I think she will do the rest herself.

Ben, let me know if you or Nellie has looked at that house in Paisly Street yet. I do wish we could be down for your Birthday. I am it is so near yet so far. I have written to Mrs. Howard. I see you wrote my letter on Saturday but I never got it till Tuesday. It seems so long till I will get another. I have felt this week longer than all the time put together I have been here. My fowls are not laying yet. I expect they will start as soon as I am ready to go. I will get no good of them this season. I am only getting a shilling worth of food at a time. I do not want to get a stock in as they want me to. I got a bag of chaff for the cow. That is the last she will get from me – I think dear Ben that is all at present.

I remain your ever affectionate wife Lizzie Peelman

Elsie is writing a letter for her daddy

Goodbye till Tuesday. The days are as long to me as you now.

NOTE FROM KEN (2004)

Readers, I’m rather surprised that I came to the end of the letters. As I was typing this one, I began to wonder because it appears that Lizzie was preparing to go home to Ben in Melbourne. I only have copies of the letters; I’m not sure who ended up with the originals. I don’t know if there is any way we can now piece together what became of Ben or Lizzie. Maybe Mum (Adele) might remember something more? Or perhaps Leigh has some information, although I think that he went down the other side of the family (Walter Clarke – who married the Elsie of these letters)?

In case you hadn’t realised by now, you can enter information directly into THIS Blog Page (I think – that is the idea, in any case). So Leigh, Cheryl or Ross – if you have anything at all to add, it would be much appreciated.

My next winter job will be to try to scan and collate all the photos I found at Adele’s place when I was cleaning it out.

An Interview with Aunty Lena (written by Catherine Copeland)

Transcript of Interview between Catherine Copeland (now Goh) and Lena Mary Munachen (nee Copeland), 1991 for Life Review project, for Behavioural Science Unit, Curtin University. Paper submitted 11/11/91

Lena [b 1909]was Catherine's great aunt, her father's, father's sister.

(note from Ken: ie this is Colin's sister - Colin being Grandma Del's Husband - the father of Gerald, Ross, Leigh and Ken).

This is in Question and Answer format.  Questions in bold, Answers in italics.

What was the happiest memory you had as a child?

Its a very vivid memory. I don't know about the happiest, but it is a very vivid memory of my staying with my mother [d 1930] and my eldest brother in Kalgoorlie.[was this Lena's eldest brother Theo? Was he old enough to have been postmaster? Was it her mother's eldest brother?]  He was the postmaster of Kalgoorlie.  It was an upstairs-downstairs, 2 storey building, very old.  Its not there now.  And I was mad keen on teddy bears, and I had a teddy bear that my father had given me. It was as big as myself. And my mother was pregnant with brother Gerald and I was up and dressed and had my breakfast and my mother was walking around.  She said “You go out and play”, so I went and got my teddy bear, and I went out onto the verandah, the upstairs verandah at the post office.  And I crawled through the railing, I suppose you would call it railing, and I was walking, hanging on with this huge teddy bear clutched in one arm and walking along hanging on to the side and it was two stories down in to Hannon St, I think in Kalgoorlie.  And this part I am only telling as I was told.  I can remember walking along there, but I can't remember the next bit, but I can remember being told.  They had a fire-engine out because they had to get a ladder up to get me down off this ledge that I was walking along.  Anyway, my mother went to hospital to have my brother Gerald as a result of it, she got so upset.  They went looking for me and couldn't find me, then they saw my dress, through the railing and there I was.  That's quite vivid, that part of walking along the railing, with this teddy bear, it has always been a very vivid memory of Kalgoorlie and my mother being pregnant with my brother Gerald.  However, that's it.

Did you have any other brothers and sisters?

Oh yes, I didn't have any sisters, I was an only girl.  I had Theo, he was older, and then there was me and then there was Gerald, and then there was, it must have been Colin, and then my mother had a baby named Trevor.  We were living in South Fremantle then, he died of double pneumonia, he was six weeks old, his name was Trevor.  I can vaguely remember that because he, my father had whooping cough at the same time.  He was a tall man and when he whooped he used to crawl up the wall.  I can vaguely recall seeing my father whooping.

He was very sick my Dad, and then this brother died of pneumonia and we shifted from South Fremantle to East Fremantle.

Because I had ¨C this sounds terrible- I can remember my mother coming home from the hospital with Colin, Dad had had time off work, to look after us kids, Theo, myself and Gerry and it was Colin that mother had had.  And from the time she brought him home he was in my bedroom.  I had to look after him and feed him his bottle in the night and change his pants and pacify him.  And in the morning I would have to get up and bath him, it sounds terrible.  I got up in time to bath him, because my mother was semi-invalid, and then I would have to race off to school, and come back at lunch time and make sure they had food.  It wasn't very far, it couldn't have been or I wouldn't have been back at lunchtime would I?

My father came home once and Theo had been fishing and caught a whole lot of fish and my mother was cooking vegetables, we didn't chips in those days.  She said to my father “Did you get paid Tom?” And he said “Yes” and showed her his pay envelope and threw it into the fire.  He put the money on the table and picked it it up and threw it in the fire , he thought the envelope was empty.  They were talking, he pulled it out but of course a lot of it was burnt, so he had to race off down to the local bank so that they could recognise the numbers.  That's quite a vivid memory that bit.

What was going to school like

I used to walk to and from school, three miles I think, I think it was three there and three back.  It was a one teacher school, and all the classes were in the same room, and each person I presume got the same amount of attention.  I must have have gone to that school for three years.  I started school there (Princess May School)

How do you remember WWI and what did it mean to you?

Well it meant more to me when it finished.  I can vaguely remember going with my father to concerts they used to have, and we used to put money in to buy like a penny concert type thing, well you wouldn't know, to buy balaclavas and knitted things for the soldiers, I think that was what it was for.

First Marriage

When did you get married?

I married the first time [husband named Thistlethwaite] in WWII. I married a soldier. I can't tell you when that was, but he went away and was a prisoner of war and was killed by the Japanese.  When this happened I went and stayed with Colin [her brother] and Del in Melbourne.

I spent a lot of 4 years not knowing whether I was a wife or widow and then to find out I had been a widow for 3 years Colin reckoned I should have a good time.

What was it like in the Army?

Well it was fun, it was great fun.  I went in as a private of course and I did a 3 month refresher course in shorthand typing, because I had been a typist.  I was discharged from that and appointed to go as a typist to Captain G P Wyld at the 3^rd  AWSCORP in Mt Lawley and I went there and lived in barracks at Mt Lawley.  We used to every 6-8 weeks, it was awful as far as I was concerned, have  a parade through the city streets.  They had a bagpipe band and everyone had to march including the girls.  We used to be down river and march up Barrack St, an awful long hill to march up.

We used to go to the pictures, they put on films for us at the Ambassador, but half way through the film most of the girls, including me, used to go outside because they were all war films.  We weren't interested in that part of the war.  I didn't want to see people being killed because my husband and 2 brothers [Gerald and Colin] were away and I didn't want to see people being killed.  We used to get into trouble for it but we did it just the same.

I had lots of fun when I was in the Army, there was Pearl and Phil and Norma and myself, we were
 known as the 4 musketeers.  We all used to finish work together about half past five and then we would rush like mad to catch a train either to Fremantle or to Perth, wherever we'd made our minds up that we'd go because there always free dances and free food, all sorts of things for anybody that was in uniform.  It absolutely ruined us, you didn't have to pay, you were in uniform and that was it.

I remember one night going from Karakatta to Fremantle (on the train) and we started singing bawdy army songs, and when the train stopped at Cottesloe the stationmaster walked down and said have you girls been singing and this Pearl, she was a pet, said “Oh no, were we were too busy smoking” and he said “Well somebody has been singing bawdy songs and the other people on the train are objecting”.  We never batted an eyelid.  We didn't do it anymore that night , we kept quiet, because we could have got into trouble, because we were in uniform.

I enjoyed my life in the Army, I enjoyed what I can remember of it.  Being in the discharge section you saw some very sad things, with men who had been bombed and it had affected their mind, and didn't quite know whether they were going to their wives or what.  Some of it was sad, very sad.

I know I upset Del when I first went to Melbourne and I had news of my husband being killed.  I was walking down the street with her, her son Gerald, and her mother and all of a sudden somebody shouted “Thistle, bloody Thistle, what are you doing in Melbourne?”.  That was me, that was what I was known as in the Army then.  There were these 2 men walking down the street, they had seen me but I hadn't seen them.  Del was horrified that they should shriek out and pick me up and kiss me, it was beaut really.

I always remember going into Melbourne quite frequently as there was nothing for me to do.  Colin wouldn't let me work in the shop [fruit shop North Rd, Ormond].  I would go to the bank, draw some money out and buy food for tea.  Colin wouldn't let me work, he reckoned he and Del worked, his father-in-law and one of his brother-in-laws [Ray Godfredson]  He didn't mind me working in the kitchen getting a meal.  Del didn't like me working in the shop either.  She was a very good businesswoman when she was young, she ruled those men like a rod of iron, as far as the shop was concerned.

Second Marriage

My Haggis has been dead 6 years this month [month, year?] and we would have been married thirty-eight years, forty-four years since I got married.

Children

What was it like when you had children?

It was pretty grim having the 2 girls [twins, Lena & Sue, b.1947].  Haggis and I lived in a large bedroom, and had the use of a dining room.  Two other people used the ding room and there were 3 people using the gas stove in the kitchen, and the sink and the pantry, me and two other families.

You can imagine how many nappies I had with the 2 girls and the only way I could get them dry was to hang them in the woodshed, and the men would go down to get wood and wipe their hands clean on my clean nappies.  I had to just brush them off because I couldn't get them dry.  It rained for 6 weeks after they were born.

And then of course to make things more joyful, I had Haggis's 3 sons from his first marriage come and live with us, which was rather awkward.  I didn't get on very well but I did with Ian.  He and I are still good friends and always will be.  He still calls me Mum.  The other 2 weren't close unfortunately for me or for them or for anybody.  Their own mother was still alive which made it more awkward, than if you are a step-mother and the other mother is still alive.  Well I think it would because their own mother has a certain amount of control over them even though they were growing up.  I had the 3 of them and Sue and Lena, then I became pregnant with Allen[b1950]

I had a few upsets with my stepsons, but that has been wiped out of my life, so I don't have to worry about that anymore, they [not Ian]wiped themselves out when their father died.  So I didn't worry about it.  It made me pretty sick.  I can tell you that it upset me because I had been so close to them all while their father was alive and as soon as he died, they just dumped me, grandchildren and all. They all called me Nana and treated me like a grandmother and then when Haggis wasn't there, they didn't want to know me. So I think the best thing I did was to dump them, you know sort of get rid of them.  I wouldn't say that, thats not very nice, but its true,they did treat me badly.  I thought I did, perhaps I'm wrong, I thought I had treated them as grandchildren and the boys as sons, its hard to say.  I've come to the conclusion the older I get, the less I worry about these sorts of things

Lena spoke about her grandson who had recently been confirmed so I asked her “Do you believe in God?

Oh yes, you have to believe in something, that's what I feel and God has been what I believed in since was a wee child. I don't know about my children, whether they do or not, I've never asked them.

How do you feel about life now?

When I introduced my first husband's father to my father, it was at the Savoy Hotel, I must have been talking about something and my father said to King's [name of her husband? King Thistlethwaite?] 'she's a real red-ragger, she should have been a politician”.  I don't think I should have been a politician, I was quite happy to be a wife and mother once I got out of the Army.  There were times when I wasn't happy to be a a wife and a mother, but 90% of the time I was.  I don't like being a widow, I don't like being alone. I suppose I should say it doesn't worry me.  I don't get upset or can't sleep or anything like that, but when you live with a person for a long time, and your still getting on well ¡K..

Additional material

One issue that came up during the interview was dentists.  Lena remarked that she was “nervous as a kitten going to the dentist.  However she could not recall any incidents in her life that made her nervous.  She felt that she had passed this onto her son Allen, who had not seen a dentist since he was 11 despite having 2 broken teeth.  The visit to the dentist was the result of denture problems, she complained of biting the lips and mouth.  The dentist was amazed that she had the same set of dentures since she first got them about 30 years ago.  Many older people take their dentures out at night and as a result their jaws shrink, whereas she leaves hers in.

Lena's only health complaint was a ruptured bowel and a ruptured gall bladder; the operation nearly killed her; this was in 1955.  She said “other than old age complaints that's all there is.  I can't eat this and I can't eat that mainly because I have this ruptured bowel; it affects my tummy but it didn't worry me until about 5 years ago.  If I get nervous or upset it upsets my tummy; going to the dentist upsets my tummy.

The actual condition Lena suffers from is called diverticulitis.

Lena's house was fitted with special railings in the bathroom to make it easier to lift herself.

She is slightly overweight but apart from this she appeared to be in good health, both physically and mentally.  She also has a strong social network with her children.  She lives next door to a woman she has been friends since she was twenty-two.

Although the subject of death was never broached, the process of disengagement was evident.  Lena had given away her wedding and engagement rings, the few photographs that she had, her marriage certificate and everything else that she called memorabilia.  She does not travel often and finds it uncomfortable.  She has stopped going to church and she likes to keep a routine about life.

Although at the beginning of the interview Lena was not sure that she could remember very much, as she recalled after another, each memory triggers new ones.  She was quite surprised about this.  Frequently incidents were able to be pictured clearly in her mind, but details were missing.

Lena's dream was to be a good wife and mother.  This dream was shaped not only by the society and time that she lived in, but also by her early relationships with her mother, who was referred to as if in the background, and her father who she was very close to.  Her pain at being unable to be a good mother to her stepsons shows conflict with this dream

Places where she grew up

Orabanda, Balingup, Sth Fremantle, East Fremantle

Primary schools

Princess May 1915/16, 18/19

1Beaconsfield 1920

 What other places have you lived in?

Well I can't really remember Orabanda.  I think I was four when we lived there, Gerald was a baby.

My parents bought a fruit orchard at Balingup, and we lived there for 3 years until WW1 started, and then of course the export of fruit and vegetables and all of that sort of things went kaput, so they got off the farm.  Dad had been working at Menzies I think and my mother and my father's brother ran the farm.  When the war came everything went kaput and we shifted, I think it must have been Fremantle.

I can remember walking to and from school at Balingup.  I had a raincoat and my mother used to say to me, walk to school without your shoes and socks on, when you get to school put your schools and socks on and put your raincoat on.  She'd make sure I was properly dressed before I went off to school.  But Theo , my brother, wouldn't wear his raincoat.  He'd wear it until we got away from the farm, then he'd take it off and get sopping wet, because he reckoned his raincoat smelt like fish.

When we walking home we used to walk down the main road, and there were orchards and farms on both sides of the road, and he used to climb over the right hand side and pinch watermelons and rock melons.  I'd get into trouble because id get dirty because I'd have to carry the melons.[Balingup is still a farming area]

It was an awful place for mud, shocking. I can remember that park, and the big house.

Kangaroo tail soup, I can remember tipping a bowl of it into the fire.  It was an accident ,if my memory serves me right.  I was a bit of a tomboy I suppose having brothers, only Theo and Gerald at that stage.  Your Grandfather [Colin], I don't think he was born on the farm, I can't remember.  Theo and I were there, he used to have to chop wood.  I used to have to go and hold ,fix  and gather it up for him and kept putting this finger out when when he was chopping. And he said to me “if you do that again I'll chop your finger” and he did you see this one's a bit crooked.  He used to go out shooting birds and rabbits, and we had cherry trees,peaches and apples on the farm.

Mother had a huge kitchen, like an oven in the summer.  If I shut my eyes,I can see the building and the house, rows and rows of steps up to the front, built along the side of a hill and all down there was the orchard, and up here was the house.  It was a big house, and my father's brother, Sam, was an orchardist by profession.

I can't remember where we went after the orchard.  It must have been Sth Fremantle because Dad went to work at the smelters.

(end of current post)

Leigh's Copeland History Part 4

The Move to the West

Adele Colin plus kids referred to in this post

The information I have of the family in Western Australia is from my Aunt Lenna, my father's sister. She very kindly wrote a quite detailed account of the family and the quotations are from her letter.
Thomas Edward Copeland, my grandfather, attended the Ballarat School of Mines. It appears that his brother Frederick did too as he gives his occupation as assayer.
Thomas may have gone on to university, Adelaide being more likely than Melbourne. At Ballarat, on 11 January, 1888 he was given a Bible with the following inscription:
"Presented to Mr. Thos. Copeland by the Teachers of the Dawson Street Congregational Sunday School of friends and the Choir, on the occasion of his leaving for Adelaide, with the kindest regards and best wishes for his welfare and happiness."
He married Lenna Grace Birch in on 11 April, 1901 at Perth. The Birch family were Western Australian pioneers. The family were Congregationalist so it is likely that they met through the church.
"Thomas Edward worked in Ora Banda, Cue, Day Dawn, Menzies and I think Kalgoorlie, during his life as a metallurgist. All these places are still going but mostly ghost towns now. He used to go prospecting quite a lot; he was a very honest man and never took any of the gold he handled, that much I can remember.
"Lenna Grace was a very keen piano player and singer and I can remember when I was about 11 or 12, while your father was a baby, mother and father singing duets. Father had a lovely tenor voice. Gerald inherited his voice and used to sing with the Kalgoorlie Choir or Musical Society...
"As a family, my parents and Theo, Gerald and myself left Ora Banda and went on to an orchard at a small town called Balingup. That was good for twelve months and then the First World War came and we were not able to send fruit away and we went broke. Father then went to work at Fremantle Smelters assaying and it was then that Trevor was born and died and your father came along.
"Then we shifted to Perth, but after mother died father went back to Menzies and worked for quite a while, until his health gave up and he retired."
The family were Thomas Theodore, called Theo, Lenna, Gerald Ware and Colin Wilson. Two boys, Eddie and Trevor, died in infancy.
Note from Ken: I remember that "Uncle Theo" came to Wantirna South when Colin died....
Theo and Lenna stayed in Perth and to my embarrassment I do not know all the details of their children and grandchildren.
Gerald Ware was a pilot in World War Two and died over Germany. His grave is at a war cemetery near Hamburg.
Colin Wilson met his wife, Adele Norris Copeland, in Melbourne during the war, married and had four children Gerald Walter, Ross David, myself and Kenneth Roy.
Colin Wilson Copeland was born at Fremantle on 23 April, 1920. "He started school at Richmond Hill School in East Fremantle on the day the school opened for the first time; he was six in April.
"We as a family then moved to Perth. Colin's elder brother worked in the P.M.G. and went to Derby and Fitzroy Crossing. Father worked at the Customs Office as a chemist.
"Colin went to Highgate Hill school then Perth Boys School. Cannot remember dates but Colin worked to learn radio mechanics at Nicholsons Music Shop in Perth; he also worked for another firm. He left work and enlisted in the army a couple of days after he turned 18.
"Colin was very keen on radio and he built one, and he and a few friends used to get on their bikes, in North Perth, and then get me to turn on the radio as loud as possible. They would ride like mad to see how far they could go and still hear the radio music. The neighbours used to get very cross and complain, but they still did it mainly on Sunday afternoon...
Note from Ken; I remember Mum (Adele) telling me once that Colin was good with radio's ;"he even built one into the doors of a wardrobe".
"Sorry I can't remember many things for you about your father; I should as I brought him up, our mother dying when Colin was nine years old."

Leigh's Copeland History Part 3

From Ware Copeland to Us

Ware married Ann Wilson in May, 1861 and they arrived in Melbourne on the "Lightning" out of Liverpool in August, probably joining Joseph in Ballarat. From their children's birth records and the published directories it is possible to follow their progress. Their first child, William Dobinson was born on 8 March, 1862 at Ballarat, but died 15 March, 1863 at York Farm. George Wilson was born 19 July, 1863 at York Farm, as was Margaret Elizabeth in 1865. Thomas Edward was born at 133 Eyre Street, Ballarat on 24 August, 1867, followed by Jane Hannah, 20 April, 1869 and Frederick, 20 February, 1871. While living at 17 Ligar Street, Ballarat, they had Annie Wilson, born 20 January, 1873 and Samual Ware, 8 December, 1874. Their youngest child, Richard Baxter, was born at 4 Ligar Street on 18 July, 1877.

Until 1869 Ware described himself as a miner, but the 1875 Ballarat Directory lists him as sharebroker. The 1899 Electoral Roll for the Federal Referendum gives his address as 14 Clarendon Street, Ballarat and his occupation as investor. Wise's directory lists him as a mining agent in 1904 and a mining investor in 1905. He is also described as mine owner, Percydale.

14 Clarendon Street is Ware's last known address. His wife Ann died on 18 August, 1902 at Ballarat, aged 67. I think Ware went to be with family in Tasmania.

Ware was obviously successful in the mining business, although possibly not as much as Joseph. The Public Record Office in Ballarat has an index of applications for mining leases in the area, several of which were applied for by Ware Copeland. In 1876 he was given a mining lease over 20 acres of land near Broom Hill State School. It was to be mined by the Andrew Marvel GM Co. with a capital of 8000 pounds. The mine must have been a failure as the lease was declared void in 1879. In 1900 and 1901 he applied for leases on the Leigh River at Greville.

The articles of association of the New Federation Co., No Liability show Ware as holding 1000 shares out of 26000. The company was formed in 1895 to mine at Brown's Creek, Dark River.

Ware must have become very proficient in the techniques of mining as he was called to give evidence in 1889 to the Royal Commission on Gold Mining headed by A. J. Peacock. M.P. The information he gave mainly concerned methods of extracting gold from different qualities of ore, given in writing. However the following is the verbal testimony as given in the official report of the commission: Commission: You are an old resident of Ballarat? Ware: Yes, very old. C: And you are pretty well experienced in mining matters? W: I have done nothing but mine ever since I came to the colony over 28 years ago. C: Have you given any written replies to the questions of the Commission? W. I have written my replies out in full. (The written replies follow in the Report) C: You have given the matter of gold saving particular attention? W: The particular line of questions here today is about mixed ores   lead, gold, and so on, mixed up. One part of my answer is with relation to a claim here at Piggoreet of which I had the lease. C. This was a refactory ore? W: Yes. C: You do not wish to add anything to this paper? W. No. C: Are you a scientist? W: I am simply a mining investor. I have worked my way to what knowledge I possess by careful investigations, and through having sons in the Ballarat School of Mines. C. Sodium is the most valuable element in amalgamation? W: I go for ores with which sodium has nothing to do. I have given an account of the latest process at home, which is not in use in this colony. I have had some stuff done by my sons by that process, and it was equal to fire assay; it is the Cunningham process, and there is a paper there which gives you the exact process. (End of testimony)

It is interesting to note that Ware uses the expression "at home" when presumably referring to England.

Several of Ware and Anns' children appear on the 1899 Victorian Electoral Roll for the Federal Referendum.
Frederick Copeland is an assayer living at 2 Clarendon Street, Ballarat.
George W. Copeland is a clerk living at 56 Lyons Street, Ballarat.
Richard and Samuel are orchardists at Ardmona.
In 1901 Samuel Ware Copeland married Isabella Cottier Boyd.
Annie Wilson Copeland married Francis(?) Menzies in 1904. He was the brother of the father of Sir Robert Menzies, and Annie and Francis were the parents of Sir Douglas Menzies.
Richard Baxter Copeland, known as Rick, died in the First World War.

Leigh's Copeland History Part 2

How does this relate to Lizzie?

The Copelands to Australia.

The direct ancestor of our branch of the Copelands who migrated to Australia is Ware Copeland. Knowing that his son, Thomas Edward Copeland, was born at Ballarat I consulted the various directories that were published for Ballarat in the nineteenth century. Ware Copeland was listed several times, described as miner, share broker, mining agent or mining investor. However I was intrigued to notice that also listed was Joseph Copeland, described as miner, share broker or mining agent, and Henry Copeland, sharebroker. The directory entries are for the 1860s and 1870s.

Ware Copeland's record is fairly straightforward. Ware married Ann Wilson in May, 1861 and they arrived in Melbourne on the "Lightning" out of Liverpool in August that year. Most of his life was spent in Ballarat, but until recently I had not been able to find where he died. It now appears he moved to Tasmania, probably to be with some of his family - I have to check this, but it seems we have Tasmanian cousins.

Joseph Copeland died in 1897 at St. Kilda, aged 65. His son, also Joseph, thought that he had spent 4 years in New South Wales, 2 years in Queensland, 39 years in Victoria, and that he had been married at the age of 22. [Death certificate.] This would mean that he had arrived in Australia in 1852 at the age of 20, had married in 1854, and arrived in Victoria in 1858. In fact he married in Ballarat in 1858 and appears on the electoral roll for Ballarat East in 1856. His qualification to vote was possession of a Miners Right. Because of the gold rush, passenger arrival records may not help, but it could be possible to find his arrival date in the shipping records. Then again, he could have arrived in the same manner as his younger brother Henry, who jumped ship in 1857, In Bailliere's Directory for 1868,69 and 70 Joseph is listed as a sharebroker living at Wills Street, Ballarat. The Ballarat Directory for 1869 describes him as a miner. The Sands & McDougal directory for Melbourne lists him in 1871 as a mining agent at 67 Queen Street with a private residence at Barkers Road, Hawthorn. He had ten children, two dying in infancy. His son Joseph lived in Argyle Street, St. Kilda in 1897. At least two daughters appear not to have married. The 1908 electoral roll shows Florence Dale Copeland living at 8 Lambeth Place, St. Kilda, and Jane Elizabeth Copeland at 42 Dalgety Street, St. Kilda. In 1913, Florence was living at St. Leonards Av., St. Kilda.

Henry Copeland remained a mystery for some time as I could find no record of his arrival, nor any record of his death. He married in England in 1863, so I was looking for him after that date. His life story opened up when I realised that he had moved to NSW and entered parliament. The Australian Dictionary of Biography, available at most libraries, has a fairly detailed account of his life. He jumped ship at Williamstown in 1857, returned to England to marry Hannah Beecroft, and was appointed NSW Agent General in London in 1900, and died holding that position in 1904.
Henry was Minister for Mines in the Colony of NSW, and a town NW of Newcastle was named after him - the mining petered out, as did the town. After his wife Hannah died, he later married her sister Mary. The suburb of Beecroft in Sydney is named after one of them. After Federation he was appointed NSW Agent General in London, and died there in 1904.
Henry married Hannah Beecroft in April, 1863 at Malton, Yorkshire. On 31 December, 1870, they had a daughter, Hilda Victoria, born at Ballarat West. At that time they had three children, Henry, 6, Ida, 4 and Lilian, 2. Hilda Victoria died in 1872. The next information I have is a birth a daughter, Ada Laura, in 1888 at Ballarat. Bailliere's lists him at Sturt Street and Lyons Street Ballarat in 1868,69 and 70. The 1869 Ballarat Directory lists him as a broker of 43 Lyons Street, and sharebroker of 25 Mining Exchange. The Burgess Poll, 1866 lists a Joshua and a Hans Copeland as brokers in Ballarat. The Joshua is probably actually Joseph and I suspect the Hans is John, but it may be Henry.

Ware and Joseph both operated for a while from the Ballarat Mining Exchange - the historic building is still preserved in Ballarat, having once been used as a bus station, and then an antique market. Worth a visit.

Copeland History from Leigh

THE COPELANDS – A BRIEF HISTORY

Our family of Copelands appear to have nothing to do with Copeland Castle in Northumbria, the town of Copeland in Cumberland, or the Copeland potteries of Staffordshire. The earliest records show that they came from an area east of Hull (Kingston on Hull), East Yorkshire, around a cluster of villages or hamlets – Burstwick, Skeckling, Ryhill, Camerton, Nuthill and Ridgmont – and Thorngumwald and Paull, nearby. The name Copeland is often spelled Copland or Coupland. The family probably worked as agricultural labourers until a generation went into the merchant navy in Hull.
The church records aren’t definitive, but our most likely ancestor is Gregory Copeland, who married Elizabeth Buckles at Skeckling with Burstwick on 23 May, 1734. They had a son William, christened at Paull, 4 May, 1738. He married Jane Buck at Keyingham, just past Ryhill, on 8 December, 1766. William and Jane had a son John, christened at Paull on 14 June, 1772. The earliest confirmed records for our Copelands are for a John Copeland, probably this one, who married Nancy Ware at Skeckling with Burstwick, East Yorkshire on 13 Feb, 1805. Nancy Ware came from a village to the north-west with the unfortunate name of Swine. The family name Ware was used as a first or middle name for several generations, providing a valuable lead in the search for the Copeland origins.
The first British census with worthwhile records was taken in 1851, and then every ten years. They provide valuable information – except that there are a lot of discrepancies in the ages given, either because of mistakes by the informants, the collectors or the transcribers.
At Hull, Holy Trinity St Mary Folio 0401v

John Coupland 83 b. Thorngumwald

Nancy Coupland 69 b. Hull

James Coupland 30 b. Ryhill

[NOTE: This must be John Copeland/Nancy Ware, living with their son James- his age and birthdate fit. Nancy would be 39 at his birth. John appears to be 14 years older than Nancy, which is unusual. Would give 1768 as birthdate for John. Thorngumwald is in the parish of Paull, and there is a John Copeland chr. there in 1772. Could be that age is wrong in census, or christened later? Nancy should be born 1782 by this – but chr. Sept 1784. And born Swine, not Hull. Her death certificate indicates a birth year of c.1784.]

John and Nancy had ten children, all christened at the Skeckling with Burstwick church. Of the children found in the 1881 census, Edward and John give their birthplace as Ryhill, but William gives his as Hull. Burstwick is 8 miles from Kingston-upon-Hull. In 1881, the sons John and William are retired Master Mariners – i.e. Ship’s Captains – and Edward is described as Agricultural Labourer, resident at the Union Workhouse, Patrington.

John and Nancy’s eldest child was John Copeland, chr. 29 Jan 1809. This John Copeland married Jane Dales on 26 April, 1830, at the Holy Trinity Church, Hull. On the 1861 census, John is a mariner on board the "Perseverance" in Bridlington. Of their five children, all sons, four were christened on the same day in 1837, also at the Holy Trinity Church. Henry was christened 2 years later.

[This is intriguing. Were the first three children born elsewhere? Their father was a merchant seaman. Or were they not initially baptised in the C of E because the family were Protestant? Compulsory registration started in 1837, and registration by christening might have given some benefit in regard to education. We know from his NSW parliament record that Henry was educated at Trinity House School, Hull. This was a school famous for 'turning out the ablest and most adventurous captains in the Eng­lish merchant service'. The other brothers may have been similarly well educated. George Dale Copeland makes his appearance in the 1881 census as an Anglican minister, Bachelor of Divinity, living in a manse in Surrey. William Wells Copeland was a Brewers Agent in 1881, and a retired hotel keeper in 1901. None of the family can be found in the 1851 census for the area.]

Two children, George Dale Copeland and William Wells Copeland, did not migrate to Australia, but three of them did. Joseph, Ware and Henry.